Bed And Breakfast Accomodation

Why the edit Gaimhreadhan?

The more I read about Wikipedia and realize its power the more I respect folks for working with it. I do, however, disagree with your removing my additions on 1 August. Not wishing to sound upset by any means, as I am still learning... Why did you remove it. I thought it might be a bit wordy and wanted to go back to edit it, but I still believe the basic information to be relevant. I am involved in the B&B industry Gnew18 02:43, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Wish to remove CAIK

CAIK does not appear to have a website and is not anything more than a discussion group that does get together every so often. IT is not a formal organization with an association as it were behind it. While it is probably helpful for the innkeepers involved it does not really belong here as a resource.

Selling a bed and breakfast turn key

Turnkey Contacts

I need to know the definition of turn-key when selling a Bed and Breakfast. Just what is to be left behind when selling a Bed and Breakfast turnkey? I have received three different answers so one more would help.

Thank you

If you have already sign the contract without clarification of what will be included, then you are depending on the sellers to be gracious and leave you with everything needed to help you succeed. If the previous owners help with the financing, they may be more inclined to leave you with more items.

External links

Regarding External links on this article: Please see Wikpedia's External links guideline:

Note that anyone who can find their way to Wikipedia can also Google "Bed and breakfast". However, if editors really feel that we need to help our readers find commercial establishments, see

Also note from this article's history, that every time a few links are added, they are immediately joined by half a dozen more. I would propose that we have no links at all, for the reasons given, or at most a dmoz link, if we really think that our readers are too feeble to find their way to Google results.

I would, of course, make an exception of the sort of link that External links are really meant for, that is, a page discussing, say, the history of such establishments. -- Mwanner | Talk 16:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Objective Choice of External Links

According to the relevant Wikipedia article, DMOZ recently suffered a catastrophic failure, and I have pointed this out in the external links that I have re-instated this morning.

I clarify that I have no commercial interest in DMOZ, privatestay.com or Bedandbreakfast.com other than the probability that some of their programmers, shareholders, officers and contributors may have been or currently are private clients.

My interest in all this is, presumably, identical to most users of Wikipedia: to have a useful, accurate and growing resource.

Finally, may I say that I am disappointed that nobody has commented upon my suggestion that "rather than throw the baby out with the bath water and have no links at all, is there no process by which two or three links can be chosen on objective criteria and then locked down?" Gaimhreadhan 03:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Page protection

Hi, I saw Gaimhreadhan's request for page-protection at WP:RFPP. I just wanted to intervene and add my personal view on the issue. I believe the external links are fine. There's no advertising, and it appears to be helpful to other users who may need information on bed and breakfast places. Just my opinion, though. I'm still fully protecting the page, and you guys let me know when you reach a consensus/decision. Nish kid 64 22:05, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Proposal to aid consensus

I would also like to make the following concrete proposals for external links on the renamed Bed and Breakfast article:

1) Reinstate the DMOZ external link

2) Reach agreement in principle to having ONE authoritative, global and up-to-date external link for at least as long as DMOZ is broken.

3) Reach agreement in principle to having the minimum number of regional directory links if the consensus is that ONE authoritative, global and up-to-date external link does not yet exist and for at least as long as DMOZ is broken.

4) Try and reach a consensus here as to which external link(s) conform to (2) and (3) above.

5) If and when a consensus has been reached, submit that consensus to Nish kid 64 so that he can incorporate those two or three external links in the protected page if he deems it appropriate.

6) Explore whether it is technically possible to then open up the article for normal editing but retain the protection only on the external links section. Gaimhreadhan 00:35, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Final position prior to mediation

OK, now that we have a cease-fire, I thought it might make sense to put together a joint final position, with the (faint) hope that we might actually come to an agreement that way, and (more realistically) that we will at least provide whatever mediators we call on with a more concise statement of positions, so they don't have to wade through all of our diatribes at each other. So, as simply as possible, my position is as follows:

1. WP:EL states that "Links to sites that primarily exist to sell products or services" are "Links normally to be avoided".
2. One of the directories that you want to link to () clearly takes payment for its services from the websites that it lists, and is therefore itself a commercial entity. Further, it provides links directly to commercial entities () where one can book a room online.
3. Another of the directories that you want to link to () provides far fewer direct web links, but still presumably is in business to profit directly from its listings (). At least it nowhere states that it is a non-profit enterprise.
4. The DMOZ link-- while DMOZ is a non-profit entity, a DMOZ directory of Bed and Breakfasts is, neccessarily, a directory of commercial web-pages, and thus merely passes the reader through to links that would be otherwise prohibited.
5. Finally, given that our articles on Hotel, Motel, Resort and Vacation rental, have no directory links, the precedent exists for excluding External links in similar articles.

Forgive me for not responding to your points above; I am not at all ready to concede the principles that they call for. -- Mwanner | Talk 00:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Two major quibbles: It is yourself and similar zealots that have made many articles arid and less practically helpful by deleting all external links - so please do not cite those self-same articles as precedent - you have simply worn people down and into resigned submission.

I think we should attempt to reach consensus on my concrete principles first; if we can't it will be inevitably fruitless to attempt to discuss specific external links later.

A minor quibble: It is not myself that originally proposed www.bedandbreakfast.com as an external link. I am rather neutral about it and merely repaired your (perceived) link sabotage spasms.

Apart from those quibbles, you are forgiven.

Now I think it might be instructive to go and look again at the first article I ever edited: Star Alliance

That article has pertinent external links to more than a score of commercial websites that seek to sell air transport services - principally those of the airline members of that alliance.

Do you seriously think that article would be improved by deleting all those external links?

And if not, please draw the distinction between the (commercial) topics of Airline Alliances and the (commercial) topics of Hosted Accommodation.

Finally, please excuse me if I do not reply for a few days - I have to travel to clients on the other side of the world... Gaimhreadhan 01:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Moving

I suggest moving the article to Bed and Breakfast (both Bed, Breakfast capitalised) to conform with Wikipedia naming conventions. (but actually made by Gaimhreadhan, when logged into W. Frank's account by mistake on a shared workstation and a relatively new editor - sorry!)

Outrageous: POV

" In the British Isles where hotel prices are often outrageous ". I agree they are outrageous compared with most of the rest of Europe, but this word is probably POV. -

• I noticed that too. When this page gets unlocked can someone change it. British Isles hotel prices are not outrageous in my eyes! Cls14 17:00, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

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