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Talk:Russians in Ukraine/Archive01 | Talk:Russians in Ukraine/Archive02
Neutralizing info?
What is this? A euphemism for POV? There is nothing neutralising in revert wars. Removal of information without any discussion is termed "neutralizing"? This is a very counterproductive approach.--Hillock65 17:28, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Ukrainian was not taught in all schools
As far as I know, it was not tought in Sevastopol and not everywhere in Crimea. In other regions it was in principle tought, but it was not mandatory. Well, there were some complications, but if the parents insisted, their children were usually alloud not to learn Ukrainian. (I ´did not learn it, for instance.)--Mbuk 08:47, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
I think it was only in 1972 when they brought in legislation that allowed parents the right after signing a document, to wave the attendance to Ukrainian classes for their children. This was mainly for families who often would move about the Soviet Union, primarilly military families. --Bandurist 00:18, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Goryuns
What do the sources provided in the article say about their origins? We should write in the article exactly what sources tell us. Alæxis ¿question? 17:32, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Fair use rationale violation
Please note, that the use of image AntiRussianPoster.jpg in contents other than discussing the political movement Svoboda, which issued it, is in violation of the fair use rationale. It is stated that it can only be used for "for the critical commentary on the ultra-radical political movement it represents". This article does not provide the critical commentary on political movement and it is instead used for other purposes. I remove the image per above mentioned reasons. --Hillock65 03:46, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Please cut down on rhetoric, will ya? The article speaks about the issue of how the radical ua-nationalism is affecting the issue of Russians in Ukraine. This is a very valid issue for the article. The party in question is explicitly mentioned as an example and the poster demonstrates the strength of their xenophobic views by far better than the text. The text goes further as to describe the degree of the support of the particular party, which is thankfully low nationwide but alarmingly high in some localities. This support affects the Russians in Ukraine much more than the silly picture someone publishes in livejournal and you upload to illustrate the Ukrainophobia in Russia. Finally, could you kindly point out who else complained about my addition and about unrelated text "down below". I read the talk page to the end and could not find anything. --Irpen 06:56, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Dubious sources
The article include a whole lot of well sourced info but its poor organization reflects the fact that it was a subject of a permanent edit war with parties trying to make their POV look strongest (or defending their version) which left them with no time to actually ensure the overall harmonious development of the article. Nevertheless, some sources were dubious and marked as such.
One such source was a personal blog of someone at narod.ru. I was not able to establish any credentials of this author. Dubious sites may publish the info by a notable author that can be otherwise confirmed for an authenticity and credentials but I was not able to confirm anything in this case. Narod.ru is a free hosting site and the fact that some info is found there does not establish anything. Not any more than "publishing" something at the talk page of the Wikipedia user. Who is the author? Was it published anywhere and simply copied there? Please check before returning this.
Another dubious ref was to and article published at this site but for a totally different reason. That the site is of the political organization is alarming but possibly acceptable, especially since the info is quoted to have been come from Medvediev, a rather well-known Political technologist. But the interview is strange, the claim he makes that Russian-native speakers in Ukraine do not speak Ukrainian is very strange. However, the "survey results" he gives are just impossible to comprehend. Here is the quote:
What is "Тобто" doing there. How the second numbers (8 and 10 %) can be derived from the first two (26th and 26th rank.) Moreover, how can this rank be obtained is beyond me. Does anyone have even a hypothesis?
Was the 26th place counted only by the share of people who ranked the problem as their top priority? If so, this is bullshit sociology. If people are asked loosing which part of their body would be most critical to them, certainly no one would put a left-hand thumb fitst in the list. It does not mean that caring not to loose one's thumb is of low priority to most people.
What rank? What was exactly asked? Is it clear to anyone? If so, please explain here.
Overall, some info needs to be moved around between several articles. But it would be wrong to just delete info. I think editors should get together and agree on the scopes and specialization of several related articles, move stuff respectively, preserving as much sourced info as possible, and then keeping it there. --Irpen 10:20, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
1. Totally incomprehencible nonsense. Please explain if you think otherwise:
However, in a cross-national survey involving ranking 30 important political issues, the legal status of the Russian language was ranked 26th, with only 8% of respondents (concentrated primarily in Crimea and Donetsk) feeling that this was an important issue. <ref>Олена Паламарчук, "Ще не вмерла Україна…" - "Ничего, мы подождём...", Громадський рух — Не будь байдужим.</ref>
2. Someone wose credentials are not confirmed publishes something at a free-hosting site:
In the parliament (13 Convocation) 19.3% were Russians.
Guys, again: The article is not about Ukrainians
Please stop adding information about Ukrainians, because the article is not about them. Second, the "hat" of the article that says The article talks about ethnic Rusiians in Ukraine was agreed between me, Kuban kazak and someone else, i dont remember who, when i only created the article and Kuban kazak wanted to change the name of the article to Etnic Russians in Ukraine we agreed that this change will hirt the article, but instead we will add this hat above. M.V.E.i. 11:39, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Please do not distort quotation
Please do not change Orest Subtelny's quotation regarding Stalin's fear of nationalism. He didn't mention Ukrainian nationalism, just local nationalisms of other republics. If you have different information on Stalin's view on particularly Ukrainian nationalism, please support that with references. --Hillock65 14:06, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
NPOV
Nevertheless, this poster shows a true side of inter-ethnic relations in Ukraine. It has a rational, go down in the page of the image, under the license box. M.V.E.i. 20:10, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
The article discusses the party and its relation to the subject of the article. --Irpen 23:25, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
The image can be used in articles that give a critical commentary of the said party. The commentary is made here and is relevant to the topic. Now, if you say that the party in question should not be discussed in this article, this is another issue. That of content, not copyright. In that case, please explain your position, why the info is irrelevant to the topic. --Irpen 07:06, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Please look at Image talk:AntiRussianPoster.jpg. This is a copy-righted image, you can't use it the way you want. There are conditions of its use. They are explained in the image rationale. The use of this image in this article infinges on fair-use provision of image use. Please read the discussion carefully, so that I don't have to repeat it again. --Hillock65 00:28, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Famous Russians from Ukraine
This list does not belong here for obvious reason. This has been discussed before, check the archives. I moved it to a sep
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