The missing bullet
If the bullet that went through Kennedy´s back and throat went into Connally, then where is the bullet/fragments that went through his head?
Probably another, "We didn´t look for it, sir... we didn´t think it was needed..." andreasegde 07:37, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
This discussion page and article are starting to shape up
This article is starting to become a good product. Here are a few things to keep in mind:
RPJ 07:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
RPJ, I have to say this: If you read through the article, there are so many "off the wall" comments that have no citations at all. "Many people have said" - "It is argued that", etc... The Frank Sinatra conspiracy comes to mind...Should we not all go through it with "a fine tooth-comb" and clean it up a bit? My mother killed "Jack", after all.... (laugh...) andreasegde 01:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree. The article should be cleaned up. I'll help work on it.RPJ 10:57, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I have gone through it and have cleaned up some silly things, like biased comments with no citations. "Russian hard-liners killed Kennedy", for example, when KGB reports state that they thought LBJ ordered it. We need more stuff from both sides, though. andreasegde 16:33, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Citations needed
I have put a lot of on the page, because there are too many unsupported claims. andreasegde 15:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for your efforts.
RPJ 06:03, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I removed the following from Response:
Who is contesting this, moreover it has not been established these were actual shots being heard. - Roy Boy 800 01:34, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
HSCA and New Orleans
Almost all of the HSCA section discusses Oswald in New Orleans and almost all of that discussion is about the supposed Oswald-Ferrie links mostly based on two witnesses, drunken criminal Jack Martin and crazy ranting secretary Delphine Roberts. But the HSCA didn't even believe these two! On Martin: "credence should not be placed in Martin's statements to the committee". And on Roberts: "the reliability of her statements could not be determined". Also note the lack of mention of six other Banister associates who testified that they never saw Oswald. If you want to start a section called "Garrison" or "New Orleans" and discuss these two, fine, but it is fundamentally dishonest to claim that two witnesses discredited by the HSCA make up a central part of the HSCA's case for conspiracy. I've removed this material to the talk page. Gamaliel 13:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Martin/Roberts material
Within days after Kennedy´s murder, Jack Martin, a former private investigator who sometimes worked with Guy Bannister informed the FBI and the CIA were about Ferrie's alleged links to Oswald, but they ignored it. Martin had a criminal record stretching over several decades and had been institutionalized in a psychiatric hospital. The FBI concluded Martin was mentally ill.
Martin later told the House Select Committee on Assassinations he saw Oswald at 544 Camp Street with Banister. Bannister, along with Dave Ferrie, worked in connection with New Orleans underworld figures and anti-Castro groups. Bannister frequented the restaurant downstairs from his office; eyewitnesses spotted him there several times with Ferrie. Oswald worked nearby and stamped the address of same building as Bannister's office on his Fair Play for Cuba Committee pamphlets , though Bannister's office had a different street address than the one Oswald used. There is no credible evidence Oswald had an office in the building or had even been inside.
The HSCA also noted that on several occasions , secretary Delphine Roberts claimed she saw and spoke to Oswald in the office of Guy Bannister. The credibility of the secretary has been called into question as her claims have changed significantly over the years and because of her penchant for racist and conspiratorial outbursts and outlandish claims such as her assertion that she was the last person to see the "sacred scrolls" in The Ark of the Covenant.
Onassis has gone
I took it out because it was one line and had no citation at all. It was a POV. andreasegde 16:15, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Freemasons have gone
Also taken out because the citation led to a page of imaginary ramblings, and had to be read to be (not) believed. andreasegde 08:30, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
"Jimmy Hoffa and Frank Sinatra conspiracy" looks very shaky and is not cited. andreasegde 12:20, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Oswald-Ferrie link
The validity of Martin's disclosure linking Oswald to Ferrie doesn't rest on his word, but on the fact that the House Select Committee on Assassinations has publicly reported the direct link between Oswald and Ferrie.
The Committee also found, at the time of the Kennedy assassination, Ferrie worked for a New Orleans organized crime leader who was fighting deportation to Guatamala. Ferrie also worked with Guy Bannister who was a right wing fanatic both politically and racially and with the most violent anti-Castro Cuban exiles.
So why bother with the overkill on Martin and others. Martin's tip was right about Oswald and Ferrie.
RPJ 23:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
More on Ferrie-Oswald link
A witness remembers Oswald and Ferry together in CAP and supplies a photograph. RPJ 20:56, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
The evidence establishing a Ferrie-Oswald link is very strong
- John B. Ciravolo, Jr., of New Orleans supplied the photograph of Oswald and Ferrie together at a Civil Air Patrol and was also a C.A.P. member in 1955, and says he was in the same unit with Oswald and was standing right in front of him in the photo. Ciravolo also identified David Ferrie.
- Tony Atzenhoffer, a former C.A.P. cadet , also of New Orleans, identified Oswald and Ferrie in the photograph.
- Colin Hammer, who says he served with both men in the C.A.P., also identified both in the photograph.
- Chuck Frances, says he took the picture for the C.A.P and that Oswald and Ferrie knew each other.
- Reeves Morgan, a member of the Louisiana State Legislature, and five other people including a deputy sheriff and a registrar of voters, who saw Oswald in Clinton La. three months before the assassination sometimes in the company of Ferrie.
- HSCA believed the witnesses and said this was substantial and "credible evidence" of Ferrie and Oswald being linked together.
- The pamphlets handed out by Oswald had the address on it as the same small building where Ferrie and Bannister worked.
- Delphnie Roberts testified she saw Oswald in Bannister's office several times.
- Adrian Alba saw Oswald frequently in the same restaurant in the building that was listed on the pamhlets handed out by Oswald and where Ferrie and Bannister ate since they worked in the same building.
RPJ 09:26, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
You are mixing different things together:
- The Civil Air Patrol: Oswald and Ferrie may have been acquainted in the CAP when Oswald was a teen, but the stories conflict regarding how well or if at all. And this certainly isn't "evidence" they knew each other years later when Oswald was an adult.
- Delphine Roberts was a crazy woman who thinks she's seen the "sacred scrolls" in the Ark of the Covenant and rants about the UN and blacks.
- The Clinton witneses were coached and pressured by Garrison.
- The address Oswald used was not the same as Bannister, but an address around the corner. Yes, they were in the same physical shell, but not connected internally. It appeared on some but not all of the pamphlets. The use of this address is easily explained by its proximity to Oswald's job or by the fact that the building used to contain an office of an anti-Castro group Oswald clumsily tried to infiltrate.
This is a flimsy house of cards. Gamaliel 14:03, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
George de Mohrenschildt
I put in two new parts. one is on De Morhenschildt, who supplied the crucial photograph and tesimony on Oswald's motive. This is a key witness for the Warren Commission.
Then put in is the evidence that links Ferrie to Oswald. I forgot to sign in. RPJ 23:05, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
The George de Mohrenschildt bit should only be a line and a link to the WC, in the One-shooter section. If it stays in, then we have to put ALL the WC stuff in (could anyone conceive that? I hope not.) At the moment it looks like a very large POV/vandalism. C´mon guys, let´s be reasonable here... andreasegde 18:13, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Important viewpoints for inclusion into the article
- Does anyone reject the link between de Mohrenschildt and Oswald?
- Does anyone believe that de Morenschildt was not an important witnes
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