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2004-5

Couldn't we put this page at List of unaccredited educational institutions? The new title is a bit too long, I feel. Proteus (Talk) 19:59, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Could countries be included - Ashford and Preston could be the places in the UK. 212.85.6.26 18:00, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

From the article:

Which ones? On what legal basis? -- The Anome 00:22, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

I posted some added info, but it keeps getting vandalised.(erased)

• It's not being vandlized. A good deal of the information you added bore a slanted point of view, and unencyclopedic language. I simply clarified some of the point of view statements. – Clockwork Soul 07:26, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I beg to differ, I think the original view is slanted, my explanation expands on the content, your's does not. As far as being "unencyclopedic" at least my spelling of vandalised is correct, but I am sure you will change that a.s.a.p. Using words like "some" and "maÿ" as in the original post is open ended and throws speculation and suspicion on the entire list. One reason why I think lists such as these are flawed. If you are going to call a school a diploma mill at least make reference to specific schools and case law.

• Yikes - can't a guy make one typo? Geez... Read below, please. – Clockwork Soul 06:36, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

POV

Please stop readding adding POV statements to this article. Also, statements such as the following are weasel terms, and should be attributed to exact sources by citing your own sources.

Thanks for understanding where I'm coming from. – Clockwork Soul 22:50, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• • • —

I hear you Clock, the fact is that many articles have the "it has been reported" explanation, mostly when used to derail certain schools. Oregon (the ODA) was found in breach of constitutional law. This has been widely reported. Kennedy Western University sued them. Another French school (Robert Sorbon) also sued them. They had a biff with Jones University too if I recall.

Both Michigan and Oregon have changed the way they have to list unaccredited or foreign schools. Alan Contreras of the ODA, himself a JD, was apparently required to undergo training on defamation laws. The NZ case is also well known, it was against The Australian newspaper, that article was flawed and proved to be defamatory in nature. I could go on....

Thanks for understanding where I'm coming from - Jack Harvard

• Hi, Jack Harvard. This is all good stuff, why not cite these references in the article? Without them, the text you keep adding into the article body simply looks like "unsubstantiated point-of-view". All I want is for it to be presented in format of an encyclopedia, not that of an argumentative essay. – Clockwork Soul 14:49, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

~ Hi Clockwork, I will gladly expand. I too believe in a balanced article, reflecting both sides with merit. Unfortunately some folks here with agendas for whatever reason keep erasing the expanded article. They target certain schools, mostly African and they seem hellbent on only the negative. Most informed people know that an unaccredited or foreign accredited degree, in some rare cases, is not always accepted in academia, but the fact is that in the business arena remarkably many are well received.

Thereby rebuffing the notion that ALL such degrees are unacceptable. Some of these schools do a good job of teaching students something, others do not. Some California state approved schools allow students in CA to sit for licencing exams in various professions. Often these schools get included in these types of lists. That is why I dislike the likes of ODA etc.

×Hi Clock, sorry for the earlier jibe at your typo...a bit trigger happy I suppose. I still see that my expanded version keeps being erased. - Jack Harvard.

Failed AFD

This article's AFD debate gained consensus to keep. Johnleemk | Talk 13:10, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Oxford Graduate School

I checked the UNESCO database, this institution is not listed. See the list inclusion criteria: "These institutions may have been listed on publicly available lists of unaccredited institutions, or are absent from the UNESCO list of world universities". Just zis  Guy, you know? / AfD? 21:51, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Not that I have a dog in this fight, but go to the US Dept of Education Office of Postsecondary Education website, enter "Oxford" in the search window, and read the result: they're accredited by the Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools, Accreditation Commission. Note that -- ironically enough -- A.J.A., who added Oxford Graduate School, had made the previous edit, removing Bob Jones University from the list on the grounds that they're accredited by the Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools, Accreditation Commission. So both BJU or OGS belong on this list or neither are, depending on whether you think TRACS doesn't count or does count. Consistency and all that.

P.S.: For some reason, the OPE entry calls the place "Oxford Gradutate School" -- which is either a typo or I just learned a new word. --Calton | Talk 00:40, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

List of unlicensed accreditation associations of higher learning

• • Created List of unlicensed accreditation associations of higher learning Arbustoo 07:29, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I have created a companion article, List of recognized accreditation associations of higher learning. A.J.A. 01:48, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Sections?

One cause of conflict at present seems to be the unaccredited religious institutions. Is there any merit in putting these in a separate section, since they claim that they have particular reasons for not seeking accreditation? They are not, I would venture to suggest, "diploma mills" as such, although they are clearly a kind of academic walled garden, with courses often taught by graduates of those courses, and admission criteria based uncritical agreement with a certain doctrinal viewpoint. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / AfD? 10:04, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Fraudulent educational institutions continue to proliferate. These diploma mills survive by operating in states with lax law governing schools, such as California, Utah, Hawaii and Louisiana. They assume identities of well-known schools or as "religious" organizations. Because of constitutional safeguards in the United States guarantee separation of church and state, most states have been reluctant to pass any laws restricting the activities of churches, including their right to grant degrees. John Bear has asked, "What about a school that requires a five page dissertation before awarding the Doctorate. Nobody seems to want the government stepping in to evaluate doctoral dissertations before permitting schools to grant degrees."

See: Religious and accreditation: List of recognized accreditation associations of higher learning Arbustoo 05:01, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

TEDS, Luther Rice

Trinity Evangelical Divinity School is accredited .

Unless Luther Rice College is a different entity from Luther Rice College and Seminary, they are too. .

I don't know why a school like TEDS or DTS would even be suspected, let alone listed when they were easily found to be accredited. A.J.A. 17:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Buxton University

In addition to the link already in the article: .

There shouldn't be any dispute whether this is a mill. A.J.A. 19:57, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Some others...

List of independent Baptist colleges is up for deletion, as is Independent Baptist College. I strongly suspect that several of those listed will turn out to be unaccredited, the whole subject looks to me like Gastroturfing. What are the accreditation details for Providence Baptist College?

Bob Jones University

Is there a reason that Bob Jones University isn't listed? Dan, the CowMan 08:27, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

BJU is a member of, and candidate for accreditation by the Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools, an accrediting organization recognized by the Department of Education and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation. As soon as BJU was provisionally accredited, it went on all the federal lists as if it had already received full recognition by TRACS. In other words, the degree of a BJU graduate is now validated for any sort of federal employment. In the world of accreditation, that's where the rubber meets the road. --John Foxe 18:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

BJU was granted accreditation by TRACS as of November 8, 2006

Non-institutions of higher learning

Holy Trinity Seminary in Irving, Texas is incorrectly listed as an institution of higher learning. Holy Trinity Seminary is not itself an institution of higher learning (accredited or not).

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