Another KWU student wished to add this
It was mistakenly entered in the article instead of the discussion area so I placed this here on behalf of the student.
I am currently a student at Kennedy Western University, pursuing my PhD in Health Administration. To say that this University is a Diploma Mill is bias and untrue. Prior to my acceptance into the PhD program, I had to submit my Bachelor's and Master's Degrees. My Bachelor's is from Old Dominion University and my Master's is from the University of Florida. These are both very traditional schools, where a student attends class, takes exams, writes papers, and receives a grade, then after 4 years for the Bachelors level, if he/she has successfully obtained the appropriate number of semester hours is awarded a Degree in the speciality field. My Master's Degree took me 4 years to complete, as I was working Full Time and had to devote my evenings to school. I had to complete a Thesis as part of the required work.
At Kennedy Western University, I have had to take several classes, none of which were "easy." The examinations were procters exams, and it took me the full 3 hours allotted to answer the questions (all Essay and discussion). The Professors do not let you slide by, they make sure you have answered the question completely. I must complete a Dissertation as part of the requirements to receive my PhD. This Dissertation is then submitted to a group of individuals you complete an Editoral Review of the document, ensuring that the work is original, and that all sources are cited correctly, and that the proper APA format has been followed. I was required to make revisions in my proposal -- a classic example of not letting one slide. If KWU were a diploma mill, my proposal would have been approved the same day I submitted it.
I chose KWU because I could complete my PhD at MY PACE. I work full time, plus teach at a University at night. Therefore, this non-traditional education was the perfect way for me to complete a degree that I have always wanted. Many non-traditional schools are being started, and many are accredited. My search of a school to attend lead me to KWU because it did not require me to complete 3 trips of "residency" programs, which all other schools required. Yes, KWU did give me some credit for my experience -- as I have had about 40 years in my chosen field, but they DID NOT GIVE ME MY "DEGREE". When I receive the "degree", I WILL HAVE EARNED IT.
Thomas S. Burrell
An Auditors View:KWU is state-licensed in Wyoming, one of the notoriously easy states to gain a license. They are actually located in Thousand Oaks, California but maintain a small office in Wyoming to take advantage of the regulatory environment. See the Government Accounting Office Report on Diploma Mills that describes KWU "coursework" and the 463 fed employees who were disciplined or terminated for holding KWU and other dubious degrees: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04771t.pdf
As a part of own our internal audit, I registered at KWU and with a Masters degree, I could receive a PhD by completing 5 take home tests and a project (in no way is it a dissertation). Over half of my PhD was awarded for life experience, of which I had to provide no proof. Total estimated time to complete = 10 months.
Also in response to the engineer above, does your KWU engineering degree allow you to become a licensed engineer in Wyoming? Unfortunately No. Notice there are no KWU alumni on the faculty? A KWU PhD doesn't even allow you to teach at KWU due to Wyoming state law, which requires accredited degrees.
KWU profits on rationalization and weak licensing laws. Wyoming is taking steps that will strengthen their laws on the subject. KWU will likely be on the move again by 9/2006.
Although most of the comments above are just rationalization, one point is completely incorrect. There are many many properly accredited universities that offer degrees through "non-traditional" methods with no residency. University of Phoenix, NorthCentral University, Capella, Walden, Franklin, Walsh, AIU, are all regionally accredited distance learning universities, just to name a few.
Although I would not call KWU a diploma mill due to its current state license, their "degrees" are not acceptable for use in our organization, nor do they allow a holder to become professionally licensed for any position that our company employs. I would hope the same holds true for any company with a competent HR or Internal Audit function.
An individual's view
'Note': I had added links to Chronicle of Higher Ed articles; these were removed by Piercetp. I put them back, and added the comment below on my reasoning. This comment was edited to stick it at the end of the "auditor's" comments. I am not the auditor.
The Chronicle of Higher Education is the trade paper for universities and colleges; citing it is like citing The Wall Street Journal when talking about corporations, or Investors Business Daily when talking about stocks and bonds. Looks to me as if KW students are terrified of any non-KW source of information. I returned the Chronicle links to the external sources, but without quotes from the articles, and linked the transcript of Andrew Coulombe's testimony to his name in the article, where the neutrality is disputed. Surely we can let Wikipedia readers assess the usefulness of these links and the extent to which they may be biased.
BuckRose 01:26, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
In response to BuckRose:
It was fealt that the links were to old information and thus not relevent. The purpose of deleting them was not out of "terror" as BuckRose says, but because it is believed that such information can be misleading.
For the time being we will allow thse links to remain. But BuckRose should understand the original reason for deleting them.
It is not standard practice in Wikipedia to put external links in the body of the article. For that reason a link to the transcripts of Andrew Coulombe were placed at the bottom. Piercetp
In response to the auditor
In every US State a candidate for a Professional Engineer's license is required to take an examination. The requirements for taking the examination vary from state to state. I do not know the requirements for the State of Wyoming. Maybe what this author says is correct regarding this. But I know that other state requirements varry. In Illinois, where I live, a candidate who graduated from an unaccredited University or College can take the PE or FE (fundimental's of engineering) exam pending a review from the licensing board. Some states such as Vermont do not have specified requirements for examination.
I do not know how government agencies regard Kennedy-Western's program, but I do know that in the private sector, many businesses regard Kennedy-Western as being a legitimate institution and many will reimburse students for tuition.
I would add that as inany university and college, the student can make whatever he or she wants of the experience. I did graduate from a traditional university (Illinois State) and did find, that while I and most other students did work hard, there were many who found ways of cheating the system. I did know students who literally did not attend classes but graduated.
I strongly support Kennedy-Western and will continue to vigorously defend the honor and reputation of the school in which I attend.
Piercetp 02:10, 8 February 2006 (UTC)Piercetp
AUDITOR AGAIN Good discussion, I respect your opinions and appreciate you not just deleting my post. On your points:
GAO Report – It is partially titled “Diploma mills and other unaccredited schools”, I refer to KWU as the latter. The 463 fed employees received improper federal payments, since federal law only allows payment to accredited universities. The report itself is only the research, but you are correct, it does not detail the punishments, resignations, or terminations for the improper payments.
Dissertation – I’m not an expert, KWU dissertation requirements were described to me and evaluated by PhD’s at our organization and found to be substandard in their opinion.
My KWU experience – I did prove my Masters through faxed, unofficial transcripts, but I’ll assume I would need an official copy at some point. On that basis, I was accepted. The majority of my PhD classes were then waived on my claim of continuing professional ed, no proof, and I received a written degree plan with those classes waived. Even with proof, I don’t know how continuing ed equals doctoral level learning.
The 10 month time frame from a masters to a KWU doctorate is exactly what the admissions person told me, not my estimate.
The GAO witness completed 40% of her KWU masters engineering degree plan (not counting thesis?) in 16 hours, but never completed a program, that is correct.
Degree requirements are not an elitist idea, its quality control and functionality. My degree is as Podunk as you can get, but it is regionally accredited. KWU degrees simply do not allow people to become state-licensed or certified in fields we need employees.
I have seen the brochure. GMC, IBM, Honeywell, etc. are listed as what? Corporate sponsors? I’d be curious to know what their thought is on the subject. It looks to me like KWU lists anyone that has sent them a check and seems to imply that they’ve done a complete evaluation of the school. Maybe they have. One listed organization I know MUST require accredited degrees, but apparently accounts payable did not get the memo.
I’m fine with people getting KWU degrees as long as they are fully informed of the