Persecution of atheists was merged into this article: See old talk-page here
"In God We Trust" and "Under God"
This article should mention the controversies about the pledge of allegiance and the national motto In God We Trust in the United States.
Title
Shouldn't it be Discrimination AGAINST atheists - instead of "of"? Otherwise it could mean how well atheists discriminate, or even how to discriminate (tell apart) atheists from others--JimWae 19:20, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
By all means, change the title. I created this page in a hurry because of a decision made in the Persecution of atheists article that didn't follow through due to neglect. I support the Discrimination against atheists idea. In fact, I'm changing it right now. Starghost (talk | contribs) 21:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Malformed title?
The title doesn't ring right in the context of the subject matter. I would expect, given the current title the article, for it to be about atheists' ability to make fine distinctions between choices. "Atheists are very discriminating when it comes to furniture selection." It may technically be idiomatically correct but I think we need to be a bit more discriminating. I suggest "Discrimination toward atheists".--Fuhghettaboutit 19:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
about Atheism in Sweden
The fact that the Swedish law of royal succesion legaly discriminate atheists is true, but it's in the same time two-edgeed - all non-protestants are excluded from the Swedish Throne. The law wasn't inforced to ban athesist from the swedish throne but other christians than protestants i.e catholics. The most famous example is probably Queen Kristina Vasa, who was forced to abdicate before she could be recieved in the Roman Catholic Church.
Bush Atheism Citizenship Quote
'In the 1988 U.S. presidential campaign, Republican presidential candidate George H. W. Bush reportedly said, "I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God." '
Is there any further documentation for the Bush quote cited above (and in this article)? The only citation I can find anywhere is at robsherman.com, where he states: "The entire Chicago political press corps was there, along with members of the White House press corps and national news reporters, but no reporter thought that this anti-atheist bigotry was sufficiently newsworthy to do anything with it, other than me." This claim seems highly suspicious to me, considering that such an outrageous statement would seem certain to be documented elsewhere. If robsherman.com is the only source, I would suggest that this citation should be removed for insufficient documentation. --Atanamis 16:13, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
This was posted at http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html at one time. The material is apparently no longer there but may provide some places to look:
I also found this source through this entry at wikiquote.--Fuhghettaboutit 18:48, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
It should be noted that there are two slightly different versions of this quote, with "nor should they be regarded as patriots " vs. "nor should they be regarded as patriotic ". The former is the more commonly quoted version (as by Fuhghettaboutit above) and it seems to be the original version of the quote (I found it on Usenet as far back as Jan. 1989), however the latter is the version posted on the Rob Sherman site and he is the reporter who originally reported it. So, should we use the "patriots" or the "patriotic" version of this quote? We are currently using the latter. -- HiEv 18:15, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
I can give you a literary reference, just gives the same story, but lends more credibility to the quote : Robert I. Sherman Free Inquiry 8: 4, Fall 1988, 16. One objection to this source though- Sherman didn't use a tape recorder. He could just be fibbing, but one hopes 'journalistic integrity" still meant something back in the 80's. Microphotographer
Links with George H. W. Bush quote on atheists
http://www.robsherman.com/advocacy/060401a.htm
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush
For all practical purposes, that is only a single source, as the wikiquote article only gives Rob Sherman as a source.Ricree101 08:37, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
--Ernstk (talk) 15:04, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Some more links
These links say how you can order a printed version of the original article(s):
- http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm
- http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/arguments.html#bush
/Benzocaine 17:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Suggested Merge
I suggest "Discrimination against atheists" and "Persecution of atheists" be merged into one article. I recognize the difference between Persecution and Discrimination however, being that these articles compliment eachother I think a merge would be beneficial. Also, both articles are very short and are not very informative on their own. Just a thought, I do not mind completing the merge if it is approved by the community.
Discrimination and persecution are separate topics and do not belong together. For example, when women in the US were not allowed to vote, they were discriminated against, but not persecuted. --OinkOink 06:19, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Situation in Germany
I am planning on adding a section about Germany, specifically concerning §166 StGB, a federal law prohibiting blashphemy that is "apt to cause a disturbance of the peace". Under this law, theatre-plays have been censored, and every outspoken atheist can theoretically be punished where his actions or words can (excuse the formulation) make religious nuts angry enough to get violent. Furthermore, the Federal Republic of Germany violates the constitutionally guaranteed neutrality by financing religious education, which is mandatory in Bavaria and other states unless the parents or the children themselves when they are older than 14 officially request not to have to visit religous education, in which case they have to take a course in ethics. Atheism is further discriminated in Bavaria since you can choose an advanced course in religious education for your "Abitur" (the final exams of the "Gymnasium", which -when passed- allow you to visit a university), but not in Ethics, which is only available as a basic course. Also, the church has the right to appoint and relieve of duty professors for theology at PUBLIC universities. Also, the state collects church-tax from every member of the church, and you have to officially leave the church to be exempted from paying this tax since with baptism you automatically become a member of the church. In some states you even have to pay a fee to be exempted from paying this tax. Several parties and organisations (even the largest parties nowadays, the CDU/CSU) in actions and words discriminate atheists. There are further discriminations against atheists in Germany, which I will not list now. However, I would be grateful for assistance in collecting information and structuring an addition. 84.56.110.103 15:24, 9 April 2007 (UTC)MikeB
Wow, that's amazing. I never knew Germany was like that. how reprehensible. Anyway, I'd love to help, but as a stupid American I wouldnt have the first clue as to where to look for citations for german federal law. let me know how I can help otherwise though. VanTucky 17:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Boy Scout Part
The part about the Boy Scouts of America not allowing atheists is either out of date or completely incorrect. A large portion of my troop is atheist, including several adults. I suggest it be removed or corrected. Crimsonn Draycko 13:29, 13 April 2007 (UTC) Crimsonn Draycko
Reasons
I think that section 3 should be deleted entirely. I have seen no reasons that justify discrimination against atheists other than those that come out of mere ignorance. For example, Anti-Christian discrimination doesn't have any kind of justification section.
Major reword - opening paragraph.
We had 3x citation required for quite bland statements but then I had read the Anti-Christian_discrimination article and felt that fitted too (in fact the Anti-Christian_discrimination article opening sentences would fit for any discrimination against beliefs as it is a generic list of claims. As the Anti-Christian_discrimination article didn't have citation needed tags it was thus easier to work with that as a new foundation. Ttiotsw 07:07, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Major reorg - Country headings.
I have reorganised the countries but added no new text. Insert new countries alphabetically. Please expand. If you plan to work on a new country entry and don't want to duplicate your efforts then please add the country name to this section and sign your name. Once the country is added by you then ideally please remove your name (or anyone else should strike out your entry from here) OK ?;
- Saudi Arabia Ttiotsw 07:29, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Slight change
I put the word "some" in the sentence formerly "Atheists claim that this violates secularism and therefore is discriminating against atheism" in the Sweden section, because it's fairly obvious not all atheists would hold the same viewpoint on that issue. Just thought I'd actually edit Wiki fo
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