Article start
I'm certainly not claiming any of this as the last word, but I thought we needed an article on dog training, so I did this brain dump. Please feel free to add or subtract as you think appropriate. The training techniques in particular are very skimpy. Ortolan88 06:37, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- the article in general has a slight POV feel to me for some reason, but I can't point to anything specific... it might just be me though...
- breaking of the "fourth wall" isn't real good
The POV all comes from my dog. I'm as neutral as can be. Seriously, most of it probably comes because I was trying to avoid the term owner , which left me with only master and keeper . But I know that people are put off by the idea of being the master , and the only thing I could think of was to say it right out, fourth wall be damned:
Same for the command voice section. Using it scares some people. Maybe this stuff could be better handled in a section on Responsibilities of dog keepers .
I don't expect my first draft to survive intact, but I didn't feel like waiting until I had solved all the problems of writing the article before writing it. I meant it as an open-ended opportunity for all to join in, Wikipedia style.
Completely missing are:
- Specific techniques for teaching each command
- A section on housebreaking
- Crate training
- Problems -- barking, jumping up, etc.
- Advanced and specialized training
- Dog tricks
- Grooming and training. The stand command, for instance, helps a lot. Many furry dogs have to be combed every day, and often are groomed by strangers, so training to be groomed helps a lot, not to mention the effect of bonding with the dog.
Much more to be said. Woof woof, bow-wow, barky barky, and out.Ortolan88 17:50, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I think the trick to being encyclopedic but not a user guide would be to put enough detail in to guide a reasonable dog trainer and lead the less confident to the Wikibook. Ortolan88
Drop (it) or Down?
I learned commands the same way they are described here (mumble, mumble years ago as Elf would say). Have a comment/question, though. I'm told that what I call 'Down!' to tell the dog to lie down immediately is now called 'Drop!' to distinguish this from (get)down (off of something). However, I understand 'drop' to mean 'drop it'--leggo of whatever's in your mouth. What do the modern gurus use for 'drop it' if not 'drop'? Quill 04:03, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Muzzle?
"A light muzzle also helps to train the dog"? I'm not familiar with this one. I've seen muzzles only for dogs who have a tendency to use their mouths too much, and that's a chewing or biting issue rather than the same kind of training that collars and leashes are used for. I await enlightenment-- Elf | Talk 01:02, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Might want to note that this can be dangerous in two ways. 1) Improper use can injure the dog. 2) If the dog can't move its head naturally when meeting other dogs, it may be unable to give signals that would have prevented a fight.
It is know as a halti or head halter Tintina 16:43, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Training methods
I edited out a couple of things. For example, I'd never use "stay" for a crate because Stay means stay in the position I left you, and you don't want to put that kind of restriction on a dog in a crate; I changed rewarding the dog for a stay to rewarding while in the stay because that's the behavior you want to reward, not getting up and coming to you for a reward. Everything else I merely identified as "one method is--"; for example, I teach dogs down from a stand, not from a sit, because how many dogs do you see given the "down" command who dawdle into a sit and then get stuck there or dawdle their way the rest of the way to the ground? Anyway, I wouldnt' call that one wrong , just different. :-) Elf | Talk 18:37, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I understand about an open crate--but even so, do you really want your dog in a single position in the crate the whole time? I wouldn't--in any case, in such a general discussion I wouldn't present Stay as a common command for a dog in a crate. I was thinking to instead include a separate fairly common command such as "in" or "go to bed" for either crate or bed--means the dog has to remain in that restricted space but can stand up or lie down as desired. (I've heard lots of people say "crate training doesn't work for me" but I've never seen a correctly presented and trained crate NOT work for any dog. But that's a whole different topic.)
Also, I removed the "used in conjunction with sit" etc. from the one command because everything is used in combination with everything else; it's not particular to that one command and so seems both misleading and confusing.
I left both of these items in for the moment because I didn't want to look like I was starting an edit war :-), but I'd rather take them out again. Elf | Talk 20:08, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Collar photos
I put some photos on the collar article. Question for you--for the quick-release collar, do you prefer Image:QuickCollarNeck wb.jpg or Image:QuickCollarHead wb.jpg for use on that page (other than the fact that I discovered that they are both slightly out of focus & I'll have to redo later)? Thanks. Elf | Talk 18:37, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Captions--oops; it's OK in the article but I was in a copy-and-paste frenzy in the image pages. The quick-release collar is just a different form of buckle collar that's easier to put on and take off. The big green thing is a toy that he didn't want to put down :-) and it is very distracting, which is why it occurred to me to edit it out. So let me rephrase the question--would you prefer a close-up of the collar with tags and not showing the rest of the dog, or would you prefer a photo of the dog's head and neck with collar? I'll try to find a plain-color collar and get the little black dog to sit still without something in his mouth. (Not my dog so I'm not taking responsibility for the training ;-) .) Elf | Talk 20:08, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Why me? Why now?
Argggggghhhhh! I was doing so good at staying away from Wikipedia--who got me started on dog training topics?!?! I blame everyone! Elf | Talk 23:14, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Latest edits
I agree with most of the latest edits. Original material didn't mean to say that you couldn't train your pup, only that classes often weren't available for younger puppies. I have clarified that, hopefully, so it's completely clear.
I disagree with the statement that "Pinch or prong collars are not acceptable"; there are cases in which they can be used effectively when other methods don't work--in my (somewhat) limited experience, more often with dogs who haven't been properly trained at a young age, particularly the very large breeds and older rescues. I don't know of any trainer in my circle of friends who recommends using slip or prong collars any more except in certain carefully controlled situations (and most of them will say that they don't recommend them, period, but sometimes they do--).
And I think the latest edits missed the point about the command voice--sure, dogs can learn hand signals, but when commands are used, most dogs don't respond well to "come Oooonnnn, pleeeeeze siiiiiit" in a whiny, questioning, or uncertain voice. An authoritative voice absolutely does NOT mean yelling or harshness. It is the voice of command. I've attempted to rewrite that section, too. Elf | Talk 20:56, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
"Master" vs "Handler"
As I read the article, the use of the word "master" kept throwing me out. It's not a word that I am used to seeing in regard to training. I have no philosophical objection, it is just not what I consider common usage. The word I am used to seeing/hearing is "handler". Sometimes the word "trainer" is used, but the trainer is not always the hardler. A dog's handler is the person holding the leash and giving the commands. A trainer might be a second person directing the handler and perhaps performing some specialized training function. In keeping with Wikipedia philosophy, I am going to edit the article to use "handler" instead. Dsurber 22:52, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
Tricks training
Whole section was removed by anon user saying it's incorrect and out of place; I see nothing wrong with a mention of trick training in an article on dog training, since that's a large part of many experienced dog owners' training regimen. I left out the part about shaking hands becoming an annoying or dangerous dominance behavior, as I've not seen it myself among many dogs, although i don't tend to see the problem dogs or owners. :-) Elf | Talk 23:18, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
POV
The entire article is POV and unreferenced. It misses out major parts of training and doesn't provide information about controversy over different types.-localzuk 22:10, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Merge?
Does anyone else think that this article would be better of merged with the Obedience training article? They contain almost the same info and maintaining 2 seems a bit pointless IMO.-localzuk 09:04, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
As an encyclopedic article I think an historical overview of dog training leading into the present day would be appropriate. The various styles or philosophies should be presented objectively: There are th
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