Illegal Abuse
The article mentions about illegal abuse, but should the article also mention standard and new prevention methods that drug companies and brands are using to prevent this. I don't know many of the methods but I know that there are methods that exisit.
From the article:
Teh. Interestingly, in my experience, while insufflation is the most popular method of black-market methylphenidate self-administration, taking the same dose by mouth is more effective. --CKL
Stimulant or depressant?
What is not clear from the perspective of someone reading this article for the first time are the apparently conflicting statements that this substance is a stimulant yet has a calming effect and can cause a zombie-like state. Is anyone reading this able to make this clearer?
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Yes, normally a stimulant would make a person hyperactive and over-alert (think amphetamine abuse.) However, in persons with ADHD, it has the opposite effect. This is known as the paradoxic effect of stimulants in persons with ADHD. -WH
-- −− First id like to say that i used to be very heavy into CNS stimulants and they dragged me down the wrong path. also I am hoping to become a pshyichiatrist, however i get tired of doing research and reading the same thing over and over so Ive been logging down my own expierences (seeing as im perscribed concerta)and using logic and research to figure out missing pieces to puzzles im trying to solve. Ill try to explain this as best i can. when you get bored its because whatever you are doing is no longer stimulating your mind. drugs like methylphenidate effect the CNS and basically makes your brain really easy to stimulate, resulting in incresed motivation, focus, sped up thoughts and logic, and it also gets your mind off of things like food and sleep which are probably two major factors in abilitys to function in school/work wtc. it also causes your muscle to tense and it dehydrates you and helps you forget fatigue... stimulant. People like me(really bad ADHD) when they take these drugs it takes all that unfocused energy and makes it so you can sit down and focus on one thing at a time giving a relaxing clear-minded feeling of euphoria. however it is by no means a depressent. the depressent like effects are just the calming sensation of being focused and able to productivly channel the need for mental stimulation -JDD −− The way my doctor explained it is this: ADD/ADHD is probably an effect of an imbalance in dompamine levels in the brain. This imbalance is a condition the brain does not "want" to be in. Stimulation increases dompamine levels, and works to mitigate the imbalance. Hyperactivity is stimulating, and works to correct the imbalance. In non-hyperactive ADD we see other forms of self-stimulation: stimulant drug use, high-risk behavior, impulsivity, day-dreaming, frequent sexual activity/masturbation and so on. When the need to provide external stimulation is removed (i.e. because of stimulant medication) the stimulation-seeking behavior disappears, or is mitigated. So, stimulent medications have a calming effect because they remove the need for external stimulation. Regarding the zombie-effect of over-medication, the analogy that works for me is this: imagine a machine where a drive pulley is connected to the machine with a belt. Everything works fine, but when the wheel is driven far too fast, the pulley slips, and the machine appears to slow down -JPS
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"the effect of an imbalance of dompamine levels in the brain" -- caused by, I don't know, boring classrooms? the so-called "imbalance" comes about because of boredom. so you give the student pills with the effects you described. I got perscribed Ritalin, by the way, and can vouch for the harm it does, that it has done me. after having taken it for a few years and going off of it the world got very boring, very depressing. why, I did not realize at the time. thank you for explaining this to me, even if inadvertantly.
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- for some people it works as a stimulant. In others it works as a depressant. It depends on the individual.
I agree that the fact that a stimulant drug is apparently used to calm children down is a paradox, and I also think it would be good if we could find reliable sources that address this paradox.
My own understanding is that perhaps it's paradoxical that we call irritable children "overtired". But if being too tired really does cause behaviour problems in children, then using a stimulant to correct it seems logical.
Moreover, Ritalin is not used to send kids to sleep in class, but to help them concentrate better! You can't concentrate on stuff when you're half-asleep. Stimulant drugs can create extraordinary powers of concentration in non-tolerant users, and this behaviour is sometimes known as punding.
Still - don't take my word for it. I've got this half-baked understanding of how Ritalin does or doesn't work, and that's why I'd like to see if any reliable sources talk about this, which we can include in the article. I don't think they have to be scientific literature - pop culture sources are okay too, as long as they are onces which have played a major part in shaping the public's understanding of ADHD and Ritalin, rightly or otherwise. Squashy 17:52, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
What exactly is the evidence for the "paradox"? As Muugokszhiion noted, the mechanism of action of ADHD drugs is generic. Low doses of amphetamine will improve anyone's concentration. Has a decent study ever been done on this? I tend to doubt it. --CKLI wasn't specifically addressing your last question. I was trying to provide some more general insight into how the "paradox" people had been discussing since the beginning of the thread may not be so paradoxical. Have you searched using the national library of medicine's pubmed database to answer your question? You'll have access to the abstracts (I know, not the same as the paper, but a decent start) of papers from virtually every biomedical journal published. A lot of studies use "normal" controls to compare the effects of the drug in "normals" and adhd kids. So, in one example (Broyd et al., Int J of Psychophysiology, 2005) the effects of methylphenidate on a response inhibition and event-related potential are compared between adhd kids and normal kids. There are behavioral changes in adhd kids, but not normal kids. Rapoport et al. (J Atten Disord 2002) report in a brief report (which I haven't read yet, but will request) that some of the behavioral effects of methylphenidate are similar in adhd and "normal" kids. The information is out there.
Why me? I like the article the way it is. If you dispute it, I think the burden of proof is on you. Those of us who work in behavioral neuroscience readily admit there is a lot we do not understand and even more we simply do not know. Once we know enough, there will be no paradoxes. This is true of all fields. And perhaps the reason the papers assumed the truth of the hypothesis (I'm assuming the hypothesis that normal kids and adhd kids respond differently to methylphenidate) is because thus far its been supported. I can't given a definitive answer because I've only read a handful of papers and abstracts on the topics, but, what I read generally (but not always) shows that the behavioral responses to therapeutic doses of methylphenidate differ between normal kids and adhd kids. I fully admit I may be wrong because I haven't done exhaustive research on the topic. I'm not going to post on this anymore because I'm not willing to read more on it. I think you've made up your mind about what you want to me true and think that you'll simply discount those with different opinions. As I pointed out, the research has been done since this is an important question. You just need to read it. Sw390 14:01, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I have worked with children who 'supposedly' had ADHD (I say supposedly because apart from one or two, most of them had no problem concentrating or working on something they enjoyed e.g. spending 4 hours every evening in front of the playstation...). The few that were prescribed Ritalin (a stimulant) did have the effect of it 'knocking them out' in class. The most logical explanation I have heard for it is that these children are already hyperactive (for whatever reason), they are already in a heightened state of being, there neurotransmission are already overacting (like if they had already taken a stimulant). So when you give them Ritalin, you are basically 'overdosing' them. The transmission become so great that the body can not cope with the euphoria and they become numb - literally. −− If someone with ADHD/ADD finds something that interests them they are able to focus on it better than other things because it stimulates the mind more than other activities.-JDD −− As Muugokszhiion said, Ritalin is undeniably a stimulant. Although the drug will affect everyone differently, it does not depress the central nervous system and is definitely classified as a stimulant only in every list we have available. If you are looking for evidence showing ADHD kids reacting differently from "normals", I don't think you will ever find it. The whole point of the debate on drugging kids is that supposed disorders like ADHD are so poorly defined that any kid that misbehaves can fit the bill (according to most respectable therapists, in the overwhelming majority of cases behavioral problems result from some environmental cause and not brain chemistry). The lack of any perfect way of measuring the effect of these drugs and parents' desperation for a quick fix mea
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