Evident lack of 'MLK comment' coverage
Where is the information surrounding the recent MLK comments made by Clinton? It seems suspiciously absent from this article? DRosenbach ( Talk | Contribs ) 20:42, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Not only is it suspicious that the MLK comment appears to be missing, Hillary's political leanings are all over the place in her college years section. Within that period there should be a greater signifigance to her fondness of Barry Goldwater whom had been furious with Pres. LBJ and Rev. Martin Luther King, at the time of 1965.
The following is highly misleading and inappropriate - However, due to her evolving views regarding the American Civil Rights Movement and the Vietnam War, she stepped down from that position; she characterized her own nature as that of "a mind conservative and a heart liberal." - The placement of what Hillary thought of herself is strictly opinion which goes against the facts. Between 1965 - 1968 Hillary was a Young Republican Leader. There was nothing liberal about her beliefs at that time. This followed by joining up with Rockefeller. (conservative democrat)~ if anything this establishes Hillary's asperations to rub elbows with the Northeast elites.
Is this the direction of Wikipedia, propaganda?
Gee you must have missed the article that details how a group of NY Times executives have funneled $31 million to Hillary's campaign over the past 3 years. (Both the Washington Post and ironically, the NY Times covered it.) This disquallifies the NY Times as an unbias source on the topic of Hillary Rodham-Clinton. If you wish, I will find a sufficient article and source!
Ok, this appears to be an unbias account of Hillary's time at Wellesley College. The body of the college years are very near the beginning of this bio. At the moment, I don't have time to look deeper into the source, but the account seems simple and basic.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=18
- sorry - family stuff calls ~ but I'll be back.
OK, back to the original subject of this section, I have now added her MLK-LBJ remarks as well as a description of the whole racial fracturing of the contest, to the campaign section. I've also included Bill's role in all this. Wasted Time R (talk) 05:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Presidential campaign of 2008
I must disagree with Wasted Time's undoing (12:01, 18 January 2008 Wasted Time) of my additions to this section; the reasons stated are not valid. The official Iowa Democratic Caucus results carry the percentages each candidate got out to two decimal points. This is factual information from the official source which additionally is particularly relevant when there is such a small difference between the results of two major candidates - there can be no justified reasons for hiding this. One would hope Wikipedia would attempt to provide information which is as accurate as possible. Additionally, Wikipedia is supposed to be a resource which provides current, up-to-date information for readers, thus the recount of New Hampshire results is relevant to this section ("Presidential campaign of 2008" at this point. We do not have to wait for the results of the recount before mentioning it as it is relevant currently. As time progresses, additional events may lead us to remove this note but at this time, the recount is highly relevant to reports of the NH primary! Zzalzzal (talk) 02:34, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Since omitting discussion of the New Hampshire recount is the other issue that I'm aware User:Zzalzzal is feeling burned about, I have revisited it. This Salon article from January 25 seems to be the best recap of the recount I could find. Should material about this now be added to the presidential campaign section? Wasted Time R (talk) 22:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Possible Bias?
It should be noted that while this article is well-written and put together, it reads as if Hillary Clinton herself wrote it. There maybe should be additions/changes in the article that would include details or at least some mention of the various things people find negative about this woman. After all, she is such a polarizing figure in American society right now; it may be worth mentioning a few reasons why. Just a thought... --141.153.50.31 (talk) 14:02, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, clearly the "Possible Bias" problem has been "fixed" because now this article sounds like it was written by the Barack Obama opposition research team.
I have to agree with the initial comment on this post. While the article appears to be factually sound, the overall tone of the article is quite sympathetic to Hillary Clinton on all accounts, personal, political, and otherwise. I feel as though I am reading an autobiography and not a history book. I am not one to comment on wikipedia articles, indeed, this is my first comment ever, but I felt the need to express my opinion that this article crosses the line between upholding standards of unbiased reporting and a tone that portrays a person in a higher light, regardless of the content.
1) "She was the First Lady of Arkansas from 1979 to 1981 and 1983 to 1992, was active in a number of organizations concerned with the welfare of children, and was on the board of Wal-Mart and several other corporate boards." The focus of this sentence would appear to emphasize her concern for the "welfare of children" and yet the fact that she served on the board of Wal-mart for six years is not followed by any reference to how Wal-mart is a company known for being anti-union, for exploiting sweatshop labor around the world and other practices that blatantly run counter her current alleged positions. This has even proven to be a controversial issue during her current campaign.
2) "Even then, she still harbored doubts about marriage, concerned that her separate identity would be lost and her accomplishments would be viewed in the light of someone else's accomplishments." While I do not object to this comment as it is a personal opinion expressed by Senator Clinton, there is currently much discussion about the role of former President Clinton in her campaign; in some instances even being viewed as campaigning in a different state than Senator Clinton. I believe the article makes an attempt to paint Senator Clinton as a proudly independent individual struggling with the confines of marriage, when it could be argued that she welcomed the marriage in that opened door's of opportunity for her that she may not have had otherwise.
As I said before, I do not question the factual accuracy of the statements made in the article, but I do believe that information left out of the article, as in the two cases presented above as examples, lead a reader to a tailored opinion of Senator Clinton given that more controversial counter-topics are not addressed.
In the first case, you're only looking at the intro. When you read the section that deals with this period, you'll see: "Clinton was the first female member on Wal-Mart's board, added when chairman Sam Walton was pressured to name one; once there, she pushed successfully for the chain to adopt more environmentally-friendly practices, pushed largely unsuccessfully for more women to be added to the company's management, and was silent about the company's famously anti-labor union practices." So yes, we do mention that Wal-Mart's practices ran against some of her beliefs, and we detail whether or not she spoke to those issues. We can't really dwell on the Wal-Mart question in the intro, because it would be a digression from laying out the basic bio elements of her life.
In the second case, we get into murky "what if" situation. The article tries to establish that she had much opportunity for a Washington career if she hadn't gotten married to Bill. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Now, would this career have led to the Senate? Possibly — several women of her age and background have become senators without being married to anyone famous or powerful — but who can tell. Would this career have led to a run for the presidency? Less likely, but again, who can tell. What this statement is really trying to establish is the reverse notion, which is a central theme of the Bernstein biography: That no matter how much she accomplishes, she'll never get full credit for it, as people will always say much of it came via marriage.
Anyway, these are good points to raise, please supply more! Wasted Time R (talk) 14:48, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your commentary and consideration. It's a pleasure talking to a rational individual who takes the time to weigh in considerations instead of simply dismissing them with blind preconceived notions and opinions. -- Steven Cytryn
I've read through some of Bernstein's book, I rate it as apologetic on Hillary's behalf for her ultra conservative past. Having agreed upon this, I'd say anything Berstein has written or says about the Clintons is highly suspect - therefore 'Not fact'. The interviews and pundit commentary of Bernstein has been nothing short of propaganda in an attempt to soften the image that has loomed over the Clintons. That image is a closed door ego-centric policy of
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