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Ethiopians are not Predominantly Negroids
This is false, Ethiopians are more Caucasion than negroid, but mentioning the fact that there are more negroids in Ethiopia is false, I am removing this statement made in the article, if anyone is against this, please read the section in the Caucasion article.. - 13:23, July 10, 2006
I stand corrected. EditingOprah has taken the ideology of using Eurocentric approximations of DNA analyses and I suppose now we have to agree with you Cluckbang. Ethiopians are not Black. In fact, I'm going to help you out on this one. --Zaphnathpaaneah 04:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Wow all of that... how about this? Why not just look at the Ethiopian, ask them, and pay attention to how they interact. I think that would make it easier to determine if they are black or not. All of this M257 and what not? Why do we have to go through all of that to determine the group ethnicity of people? Are they black or not? They are Black. Whether or not they have any Bingo genes or not. --208.254.174.148 01:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
People can't even decide whether Ethopians are Black and they're African, and Zaph has the nerve to claim South Asians and Australoids are Black? Do you not see just how fringe your views are Zaph?--Editingoprah 03:15, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Since when?
The article says 'A "Black" is a person with a majority of ancestors that lived in sub-Saharan Africa at least until 1492- a date that marks the start of massive population movement. Melanesians, Negritos, South Asians, and Australian aboriginals often have darker skin than many black people and for this reason are incorrectly described as Black but their genetic history is very different.'
Every dictionary I've looked at (English and American) says that 'black' refers to dark skin colour. Anyway, I was just wondering where this idea comes from.--Jcvamp 17:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
The first dictionary I could find (Dictionary.com) defines Black as "Of or belonging to a racial group having brown to black skin, especially one of African origin: the Black population of South Africa. Of or belonging to an American ethnic group descended from African peoples having dark skin; African-American."
Also, scientists equate blacks with sub-Saharan Africa, as other dark skinned peoples are very unrelated to those in Africa. It doesn't make sense to write an article about all people who who have nothing more in common than color. You might as well include Northern Chinese in the article about White people since Northern Chinese have white skin or you might as well write an article called brown people lumping lighter skinned Africans in with Italians and Middle Easterners. If you want a general discussion on all dark skinned people, start an article called "Dark people" but I think this article is far better off if we keep the discussion precise and relevant. Editingoprah 19:31, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Also, keep in mind that when those dictionary definitions were first created, people assumed that Negritoes and others were actually related to Africans. Editingoprah 19:37, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the responses.--Jcvamp 18:30, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Well then I must be a racist, Ethiopians and other Semitic people located in eastern africa are not of negro classification. Perhaps in a line up of various African people's from below the sahara the Ethiopians would stand out possibly in skin tone and facial structure. The Ethiopians are a mix if clashing people's some of negro classification, and Greek, Arab, Turkish, and Italian can all be added. For exapmle, MOST Ethiopians do not present the physical stregnth of MOST Sub-Saharan Africans. Sadly Ethiopia was never colonized or enslaved due to the fact the European Kingdoms didn't view the Ethiopians as they viewed the West Africans..
Unreferenced and POV
This article is not only entirely unreferenced, but it full of blatant errors and contradictions. Most of it is an essay of original thought, using terms such as "West African oriented person", "Equatorial lineage" and "Africanologist". --Ezeu 00:03, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Caucasus peoples of Abidjan
I had to delete this sentence:
The Caucasus peoples of Abidjan, and Crimea are sometimes called black because, relatively speaking, they are darker and less European in their appearance.
It is clearly wrong. Maybe there are only a couple of misspellings in the names. Maybe the poster can check into it. If s/he wants to put it back again, please with sources.
POV
Not only Africans are black. The article cited for the definition of "black people" does not define black people. It deals with a theory regarding the migration of hominid primates from Africa. --Ezeu 20:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I just looked at a another dictionary and this one defined black as a member of teh African race. Not sure where you get the idea that black refers to anyone with dark skin. I suspect someone just made that up and added it to the article Editingoprah 00:16, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
The Warumpi Band were an Australian Aboriginal rock band from Papunya, Northern Territory and had a famous song called, "Black Fella, White Fella", the self reference of Indigenous Australians as black is long standing. Paul foord 08:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
The fact that dictionaries say "especially one of African origin" means that although there are certain less precise and less formal uses of the word "black", having an "African origin" is the more precise use of the word, and as an encyclopedia, we have to give far greater weight to formal definitions, especially formal definitions that are used by mainstream scientists, not informal definitions used by some singer in Australia. Also, keep in mind that black is a RACIAL classification, which means it describes a set of traits that are correlated through a common genetic history. Scientists have known for at least the past decade and a half that the Oceanic people do NOT have the same genetic history as Africans. They left Africa around the same time as proto-Europeans did, it's just that Europeans migrated North and acquired white skin. But genetically, the Oceanic people are part of the non-African branch of homo S. Sapians and have more genetically in common with Europeans than they do with with any ethnic group in Sub-Saharan Africa. Historically, before the days of genetic reasearch, some may have looked at their appearance and assumed they were part of the black race, but we now that this assumption was incorrect and to lump unrelated people into a single racial category is a total contradiction, because race is defined by common ancestry. Whatdoyou 15:35, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
First of all Australian aboriginals never identified themselves as black. This was a term imposed on them by a minority of white people at a time when knowledge of genetics was limited. Second of all, even if some people wish to associate themselves with black culture and use their dark complexions as an opportunity to do so, does not mean we have to induldge them. This is an encyclopedia, not an uncritical promotional venue for trendy political opinions based on scientific ignorance. Wikipedia can't be everything to everyone, and it most certainly shouldn't contradict itself by including people with very different ancestry into a single race. I know anyone in the world is free to edit wikipedia, but that doesn't mean we have to go to the lowest common demoninator when defining terms that can much better be defined by major advances in genetic research. Whatdoyou 16:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Of course Australian Aboriginals never defined themselves as black. Europeans had not arrived to illustrate white-ness. But now they do. Got a problem? Well to inform everyone, many people Australian Aboriginal descent self-identify as black - I thought that was the point of this Wikipedia - to accumulate current knowledge of all users. And I'm not even revealing the tone of my skin! Shiftaling 16:28, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
From the page for 'white people' : "Black" or "brown" people came to be defined by having darker skin than a "White" person, and the same "color" came to be applied to all non-white people. i.e. "Black" is a European term for the people that Europe colonised all over the world - Are you saying that Australian Aborigines are "white" - if so, visit my place and expect a vocal discussion on the matter. "White" and "Black" are terms that are highly contested and therefore we should let Wikipedia consensus resolve the issue. Shiftaling 16:49, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Many males self-identify as females (they're called crossdressers) but that doesn't mean we have to grant them the power to contradict biology nor does it mean we have to include them in the definition of female. The idea that Australian aboriginals are black came from racial prejudice (people who did not know anything about genetics, prejudged their genetic heritage based on superficial features). The fact that this idea still lives on among a tiny minority of the world's population is a product of ignorance, and wikipedia is not a forum for repeating misconceptions. The evidence is very clear. Humans started in sb-Saharan Africa. Those that left earliest formed other races, those with ancestors that stayed longer are the black race. All the scientists are now in agreement. All the dictionaries define black with emphasis on Africa. There's no longer really any argument. Now we can certainly mention historical misconception about t
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