"vitamin" A ccutane ?
re: "pharmaceutical analogues such as...isotretinoin" It is the conventional medical crowd & campfollowers that have insisted upon the disinformational BCCA page here, as well as at other similar Wiki articles (I count at least 10 errors, misrepresentations, etc in BCCA, I stopped dissecting at 4 earlier because they incrementally do get so much more time consuming exploring the depths). Isotrentoin was mentioned because it was among the best to fit more BCCA descriptions & allegations than anything else that might be conventionally twisted to fit such a view of OM, although that might not be BCCA's intent. Your favorite, Whaleto, had more accurate material than BCCA, so why the preferential treatment?
from BCCA: "When vitamins are consumed in excess of the body's physiological needs, they function as drugs rather than vitamins because the human body has limited capacity to use vitamins in its metabolic activities." (Hafner), "High doses of some vitamins are toxic hence supplements are generally not recommended unless recommended by a physician. (Hislop)", "Because vitamins in large doses may have drug like effects, they could compromise the effectiveness of standard medical treatment in the same way that taking two different drugs might." (McDonald), "Pregnant women or those planning to become pregnant should not use megavitamin therapy. Congenital abnormalities and spontaneous abortions may occur." (Ontario) (Loescher), "Megadose vitamin therapy may cause injury that is confused with disease symptom. High vitamin intake is more hazardous to peripheral organs than to the nervous system, because the central nervous system vitamin entry is restricted." (Snodgrass).
sarcasm Wow! Isotretinoin must be it , nailed OM to a cross. Ha! end sarcasm
Isotretinoin is an in vivo interconversion of a rare dietary form of vitamin A, used pharmaceutically in "megadose" quantities for disfiguring acne and is infamously pathological for inducing birth defects. Orthomed probably would better agree with naturopaths on environmental and dietary changes, and then, if you insist on something biochemical, look at 4%-5% niacinamide gel, oral pantethine, mixed tocopherols oil, lecithin, and maybe some vitamin A and zinc supplementation or even niacin or enzymes but haven't researched them deeply. Although my & wife's brothers suffered serious even disfiguring acne, son stopped his scarring with mixed tocopherols topically, hadn't heard of niacinamide gel or pantethine then. Of course this is an individual situation where there are many.
As far as I can tell from conversations here, Isotretinoin is as orthomolecular as conventional medicine can see, perhaps even best of that genre. If the shoe fits, wear it; even wallow in it.--TheNautilus 10:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC) Retry, clarify writing, sarcastic point, above. --TheNautilus 23:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
"cost"
"Nutritional supplements often cost less than pharmaceuticals." has a number of issues. (1) My original point is that regulation can bring vast cost increases (retail prices as well as manufacturing, support, & mktg costs) with it. (2) The stmt's veracity at retail may be geographically conditional i.e. high drug costs, low cost supplements in the US may be true, but prescription priced supplements in Europe, Canada or Australia, at higher costs than US, vs lower drug costs outside the US, this statement is often false. (3) At actual manufacturing costs, this statement is probably often false. ie. 0.8 mg Baycol vs even 3 - 6 grams of cheap niacin ($0.05-$0.10 Costco retail), Baycol could have probably "won" with a lower manufacturing cost ("you", of course, would lose ;-> ).--TheNautilus 01:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
" and safety"
The current presentation about FDA regulated "safety" misleads a normal reader to imply that drugs (new or old) are safer than orthomolecular supplements (pls careful about what is considered OM), the historical record does not support that proposition by a long shot. Drugs certainly are not "proven safer" at the point of introduction than exisiting vitamins and supplements, merely that most dangerous drugs were not recognized as immediate threats to life and health beyond small "acceptable" percentages in a given category (mgmt game: max the number of slices) that can be balanced in net efficacy approaching zero within p=0.05 and all the test features one can walk through. Again the recent historical record is pretty strong here. I realize my edit and sentence construction may need polishing but I am serious about the point.--TheNautilus 05:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Why don't we say something along the lines of "pharmaceuticals must be proven safe and effective to the satisfaction of the FDA before they can be marketed." That way, readers can draw their own conclusions, based on their level of distrust of the FDA, but the statement is still accurate. The fact that vitamins/supplements are unregulated has a number of implications for their relationship to mainstream medicine - perhaps the most direct is that it's really hard to do a well-conducted, meaningful trial (witness all the flack Miller and others have gotten) when formulations are anything but standardized and may vary from lot to lot or manufacturer to manufacturer. I realize ephedra's not OM, but that (and other cases like the PC-SPES debacle ) point up the danger of unregulated supplements in the hands of an unscrupulous manufacturer/marketer, and may make mainstream docs a little wary of recommending them - hence relevant to the "relationship to mainstream medicine" section. MastCell 01:08, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Broken link
I commented out the sentence about Robert Cathcart and how he's "not allowed" to test his theories. (the text is still there, but I enclosed it in comment tags so it doesn't show in the article). The main issue is that the citation appears to be broken. The other thing is that it's not clear what it means to say testing has not been "allowed". No one prevents Cathcart, or anyone else, from testing their theories. Perhaps the source had some information on this, but it appears to be a broken link. MastCell 17:25, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
No worries... thanks for the note. MastCell 21:38, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
"Complementary and alternative medicine"
Hello, TheNautilus. Could you explain why you feel that describing OM as part of "complementary and alternative medicine" is unacceptable? Most of the article is taken up with explaining the ways in which OM differs from/rejects conventional medicine, so it seems logical to state upfront that it's a complementary/alternative field. These terms are not pejorative, to the best of my knowledge; they are descriptive. MastCell 00:44, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
"alternative"
Moved "alternative" here for discussion, it is already associated early on as nonexclusively complementary and alternative medicine in the second paragraph, previously part of the lede. I don't mind recognizing that many specific recommendations of orthomed are still considered alternative by younger generations, even if many orthomed treatments may *derive* from, greatly expand upon, or parallel, much older mainstream medical research and practices, such as described in Vitamins in Medicine free pdf (eds. 1942, 1946, 1953, 1980) with modern, much safer, more effective supplement forms and protocols (if not proven to an adversarial fault, as well as expensive "Class I" evidence). Or that some are still in the embyronic research or experimental category of medical schools. However orthomed is by no means identically "alternative" or even "CAM", it has significant overlaps in mainstream medicine, but they are silent largely because there is not much to discuss, is there? The mainstream is slowly developing, absorbing, and modifying, many, many materials and positions used in orthomed, conveniently and about 12 - 60 years late(r), without any recognition - then it's just
orthomolecularmedicine in the eyes of the mainstream. In terms of conventional medicine, orthomed is unsubtantiated at the level of FDA drug trials (non-patented, -able foods also don't need advanced ) and is conjectural, experimental and/or empirical in nature.So let's not just throw a debatable personal opinion (too generalized a statement) in the faces of readers in the first sentence that might distract readers wrestling with what the very concept is on the first instance, or just poison the subject. There is plenty of space below to discuss their common inheiritances and divergences.--TheNautilus (talk) 21:58, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
QW opinion pages
QW's opinion pages concerning vitamin C and Orthomolecular medicine are dated, not peer reviewed publications (the least of my concerns) and flat wrong or misrepresentations on both current treatment protocols and the general science part, now cumulatively acknowledged by experts or authorities in conventional medicine on a number of points. I've detailed this several times now. Although the current OM treatments may remain conventionally unaccepted as yet, the specific QW criticisms that are made are erroneous , reduciing the QW poi
Custom Vitamins, Vitamin supplier of wholesale supplements and Bulk ...
Now offering custom Vitamins, Vitamin supplier of wholesale supplements, Bulk Vitamins ... Green Food Plus Green Food Supplements HGH & HGH Spray Hair Skin Nail Hoodia Diet Extra ...
Supplement Manufacturing Articles and Information
Organic Skin Care Products Manufacturer ; Body Lotions: Manufacturing at Wholesale ... Functional Beverage Manufacturer; Food and Vitamin Supplement Manufacturer or ...
Discount Vitamin Sale - Wholesale vitamins and supplements
Discount Vitamin Sale - Wholesale vitamins and supplements. Sublingual B12 Discount Vitamins and more. ... $4.99 Shipping - Manufacturer Direct - Money Back Guarantee View Cart - ...
Site Map
Pet Supplements. Dog Vitamins (Wholesale Pet Supplies: Dog Vitamins and Manufacturers) ... Functional Beverage Manufacturer; Food and Vitamin Supplement Manufacturer or Wholesaler ...
private label pet vitamin manufacturer | private label pet food ...
we manufacturer private label pet vitamins, pet food supplements, and ... pet vitamin specialists and contract manufacturing pet food supplement ... supply manufacturer wholesale ...
Vitamin Manufacturers, Private Label Vitamins, Wholesale Vitamin and ...
... Vitamin Manufacturing, Herbs, Wholesale Vitamin Supplements. ... complete Private Label Vitamin Manufacturer In Stock ... Green Food Plus Green Food Supplements HGH & HGH ...
WHOLESALE ORDERS
2-CERTIFICATE FROM THE MANUFACTURER MENTIONING: A)ACTIVE INGREDIENTS ... For your A2Z, Health Food Nutrition Green Tea Weight Loss Vitamin Supplements wholesale dropshipper, food ...
Vitamin Supplement
DAMAGED ORDERS; WHOLESALE ... Manufacturer Part No: ... certain every vitamin need is met? Use R-Zilla™ spray-on Vitamin Supplement. It's as easy as a daily misting of a pet's food ...
Vitamin C, Vitamin C Manufacturer, Vitamin C Supplier, Vitamin C ...
Weight Loss Supplement; Whole Food Supplement ... Company Profile: Manufacturer and exporter of vitamins, dietary supplements such as vitamin A, vitamin B, vitamin C ...
Vitamin A, Vitamin A Manufacturer, Vitamin A Supplier, Vitamin A ...
... food, organic health food and vitamin food ... Company Profile: Manufacturer of a wide range of health supplements like vitamin tonic ... Company Profile: Wholesale exporters of ...