Mounted State
Establishment of the first Hun state is also the first appearance of the culture of horseback migration in history.
Mounted nomads had dominated the steppe since at least the appearance of the Scythian tribes. Don't they count for something?
As far as I know the story of Scythians go back to only 7th and 8th century BC. So, Huns seem to be a little bit older. On the other hand, my initiation date for Huns (1400 BC) is highly disputable and indeed they became a significant power only after the 2nd century BC. Anyway, probably even Sumerians were a nomadic, horse-back culture who took their origins from Persian, Indian or maybe from Altaic tribes (for their language have some striking similarities with Altaic languages). So, I would better change this statement. I am planning to go on working this article (hopefully) in the future with some friendly help ErdemTuzun.
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=115394&tocid=10301#10301.toc ErdemTuzun
user:H.J.
Barbarians
Your composition of five barbarians (Wu hu): Xiongnu, Hu, Tartars, Mongols and Turkics) was highly disputable. Actually I cannot clearly find out your exact composition so I prwsume the above was yours.
My questions are as follows: 1) The term Xiongnu or Hiung-nu was never used until 2/3 century B.C. (the establishment of Qin Dynasty)
2) Mongols did not ever appear as a small group of tribes until early 9th century A.D. So your date of "5 barabrians occupation of China" was not even close.
Even if you changed to 9th century, the Mongols was still too weak to challenge Tang's authority of Northern China at the time.
3) Please explain more about Tartars and Turkics. Your usage of the words was too vague. What tribes of the Tartars and/or Turkics invaded China at your timing of invasion? Your arguments were too weak.
4) If you really meant that the Huns inhabited northeastern China, presumably Manchuria, and Mongolia from 1000 BC to 6th cen. A.D., you was certainly wrong.
5) Answer to Establishment of the first Hun state is also the first appearance of the culture of horseback migration in history. . I agreed that Sumerians never were a horse-riding civilization; however some researches I have done showed that the first Hun state was not the first horseback state either. The argument greatly depends on whether you considered Attila's state as the first Hun state. If you can define it more concisely, I may be able to help you. In other words, I need your timing of your Hunnic state.
6) Even before 6th century the term Hu2 already meant non-Hunnic "barbarian tribes".
7) Seems like you interpreted Hu as barbarians but I can prove to you that such an interpretation is wrong.
I don't want to be mean or anything but reading your paragraph provoked many second-guesses. I also don't mind helping you out on this article.
Personally I don't like the word "Mongolian" since it has been abused to stand for all tribes that inhabit the steppes in today Mongolia, no matter how close or loose they are related (like ancestors, descendents, by marriage, offshoot or no relationship at all) to the "true" Mongolian who ravaged Europe in early 13 century.
Ktsquare
I agree that we need better terminology for Mongol peoples at different times (including the Golden Horde), modern Mongolia, the region (as distinct from the nation-state)... but I don't have a good suggestion. I came to the talk page for one small point, which is that the link being called "traditional Hungarian history" has "controve.htm" as the filename. This suggests that the claim is nothing like a consensus. Vicki Rosenzweig
Chinese characters
Can anyone with knowledge please please put in the Chinese characters in brackets () next to the reconstructed names of the Hun rulers in place of the transliterations. Kaz 04:18, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Copyediting please
Wow, this page is really hard to read. My kingdom for a copyeditor! 19:18, 27 Dec 2003 Puffy jacket
Mongolian origin
I think that Huns where ancestors of Mongols. Huns' Mongolian name is Hunnu - meaning 'humans' (or 'humun' or 'hun', 'nu'- is plural from 'nugud' in ancient language) in Mongolian language. First unified king was Modun shanyu son of the Tumen shanyu. Mongolian historians believe that Mongolian land has several nomadic kingdoms. 1st Hunnu, 2nd Siyanbi, 3rd Toba and Muyun, 4th Nirun (Avar), 5th Tureg (Turk), 6th Uigar, 7th Hitan (Liao dynasty), 8th Great Mongolia. Hunnu, Siyanbi, Toba, Muyun were ancestors of Mongolians and Nirun, Hitans were true Mongolians. Nirun, Hitans used same language, tradition lake Mongolian. G.Ganbat
Xiong-nu terms in Japanese
I know I saw a paper which was looking at some Xiong-Nu terms documented in Chinese sources which were easily explained through Japanese. I can only remember Shanyu = Tenno and Liu = Ryu (dragon) off the top of my head. Maybe someone knows which paper this was and can put something about this in the page.Zestauferov 03:48, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Xiong-Nu was ancester for the Gokturks and the present day Uyghurs who migrated from Mongolia to Xinjiang area during the Tang dynasty.
Xian-bei was ancestor for Mongolian who were from Manchuria and moved west to now Mongolia.
In japanese: xiongnu = kyoudo 87.0.217.126 12:48, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Germans as Huns
Just a question: As I recall, the term Hun for Germans doesn't derive directly from the people, but from a speech Wilhelm II. made in the context of the Boxer Rebellion. Shouldn't that be cleared up? Io 14:52, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I thought Germans were called Huns even earlier during the American Revolutionary War. ⇒ Jarlaxle Artemis 05:28, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Huns as Turks
The following is remooved from teh article Turkic peoples where it did not really belong. I have not read this artilce to see whther there is anything useful in this addition but will leave this to you to sift HUNS The Huns, whose origins go back to 1200 BCE, are considered the first Turks by scholars. In ancient Chinese sources they were referred to as "Hsiung-Nu" and as the "colored-eyed" people. The Huns are famous for four empires which they established:1) The Great Hun Empire which was founded by Mete (Bagatir) in 204 B.C. and which covered an area which at the north was Siberia, to the south Tibet and Kashmir, to the east the Pacific Ocean and to the west the Caspian Sea. 2) The Western Hun Empire which was founded by Panu in 48 A.D. and covered the area of central Asia.3) The European Hun Empire which was founded by four brothers by the names of Muncuk, Oktar, Rua and Aybars. This empire covered what is southern Russia, Romania, Northern Yugoslavia, Hungary, Austria, Czech republic, southern & central Germany and the area from eastern France to the Ural mountains; from northern Hungary to the Byzantine Empire.4) The White Hun Empire which was founded in 420 A.D. by Aksuvar. This empire covered most of Turkistan (central Asia) as well as parts of northern India and also Afghanistan. Perhaps the most famous of Hun rulers, Attila , who was called the "scourge of God" by the Romans, was King and General of the Hun empire from A.D. 433 to 453. Refdoc 23:18, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Huns and Xiongnu
The anonymous idiot who keeps vandalizing this page has raised a valid point, though in what is possibly the most obnoxious manner possible: The connection between the Huns of European history and the Xiongnu of Chinese history isn't, to my knowledge (which is mostly of English, with a bit of French, scholarship), as concrete as this article makes it out to be. Perhaps much of this article (including the rather dubious lists of rulers) ought to be moved off to Xiongnu and this article should be refocused on the European Huns? Or should both be moved into separate articles (European Huns and Xiongnu) and this page converted into a disambiguation between the two, and perhaps the Hephthalites as well (since they're also known as the White Huns )? In either case, this article definitely needs a fuller exploration of the scholarship on the relation between the various groups called Huns . —Charles P. 23:46, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC) okay this person messed up dates and information! You shouldn't be looking at wiki anyway! Most of the time no one knows what they are talking about on here... look at a real internet page..
I SPEAK
There is an increasing tendency amongst china-centrists to link everything to china and ancient chinese civilizations.
My first modification was not offensive. But since it got reverted back, wrongly, i decided that whoever did it is gay and i should devise more effective ways of stating my point. Hence, the "obnoxious manner".
However, since you did acknowledge that my point is valid, I will stop vandalizing the page. I will also write an article on the true history of Huns and their tribal and royal lineage(s).
Lastly, I got banned 2 times while editing this article. But it was not effective at all!! because my IP address seems to change every now and then. I just don't
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